I now give you Second Chance's second opinion and convention report of Cliff's List that he posted on the Dallas LAIR's Message Board...
Trip Report – Cliff’s List Seminar 2006
For those who don’t know, I recently attended the Cliff’s List Montreal seminar. I’ve written up a very brief trip report, which I’ve attached below and really isn’t anything more than a listing of the speakers and what they discussed. The seminar was pretty interesting and definitely worth attending, although a number of presentations dealt with inner game and were less than valuable, IMHO -- not because inner game is a bad thing, but because of the way certain speakers were so eager to trash routines and structure.
Many of these same presenters seem to have forgotten that they too were once AFCs who needed a routine stack and field tactics to achieve results. It was pretty annoying to hear these same PUAs dissing the routines and telling people “just be yourself, but be cool, and that will attract girls, and oh by the way fuck the routines because they’re fake”.
I attribute much of this directly to the publication of The Game, which has pulled a whole new breed of person into the seduction community. Many people (but NOT ALL, of course) who come into the community through The Game are not people who are searching for truth and answers, as I was doing when I discovered the community; instead they are people who are searching for entertainment (after all, The Game was written to entertain, not to instruct).
These same people can’t stomach the results-oriented approach and techniques that were developed prior to the publication of The Game. Even though these techniques work and are GUARANTEED when used correctly to produce great results (i.e. sex), the idea of using a script or routines is too politically incorrect to those who fail to appreciate how the community has transformed the lives of thousands of involuntarily celibate men into happy, sexually satisified men.
Many instructors are changing what they teach in order to attract this new customer base, which explains why a few of the presentations were lame-ass, feel-good pep talks. The publication of The Game has really changed this community, and it’s not all for the better. (You’d be surprised how many people I ran into that had never even heard of fastseduction.com.)
However, as I said before, many of the presenters provided practical information that all attendees could go home and try. I’m happy to say that Dallas’s own Asian Playboy can be counted among the top 5 most useful speakers at the Cliff's List seminar. In my notes I titled his presentation “Overcoming anti-Asian Racism if You’re an Asian PUA”. However, parts of his presentation were applicable to far more than just Asian PUAs. I really enjoyed his “how to AMOG a tall guy” tactic – that alone was GOLD.
The real value in this trip, to me anyway, was meeting more PUAs from across the globe. NONE of the big names were there (Style, Mystery, Juggler, David De Angelo, Tyler Durden) except for BadBoy, David Shade, and Steve Piccus. Many of the presenters I’ve never even heard of, or I only had passing familiarity with their name and that’s about it. That’s not to say they didn’t have good presentations, but it was kind of disappointing to not hear more of the big names.
The seminar ran for three days, 12 hours a day. That’s a lot to listen to. Then at night we would all go out in Montreal, which is an AWESOME city. The weather was spectacular, the city is really accessible with a wonderful subway system, and is populated by LOADS of beautiful girls.... some of the prettiest I’ve seen in North America.
The seminar ended on Sunday evening, and on Monday night Steve Piccus took a few of us out into a park and conducted a shamanistic ritual where he showed us how to see other people’s auras. It was pretty cool and just a little bit creepy. One guy in our group actually saw some other things, but I don’t think I want to go into that here.
All in all, the trip (including my extended stay in Montreal) was a good experience. It could have been better if some of the speakers had chosen better topics, but just meeting some of the other PUAs and exploring a cool city was loads of fun. I’ve got no regrets, and I’m curious to see what next year holds.
So without further ado, here is a list of speakers and what each talked about:
Michael the Dating Wizard – Intrinsic self-worth and why you must first have this before you can pull girls. Inner game stuff, but some good points.
Carlos Xuma – gave a very broad powerpoint presentation on game. Not very useful.
Elvis Preston King – This guy is a fucking joke and provided comic relief. He’s an old white guy who lives in a third-world country where he basically pays girls to have sex with him. His “wingman” is really a pimp. This dude is one sick fucker.
Nige54 – An Australian PUA who talked about the importance of teasing and qualifying. He had some great stories and some good points.
Rion – very, very basic stuff that wasn’t very practical. A very boring speaker. I watched him nearly get kicked out of a club later that night.
Grant Adams – creater of Net2Bed.com. He’s got what looks like a GREAT system for using on-line profiles to pull girls. Seems very legit and is worth checking out some more.
Panel Discussion – Badboy, Lance Mason (Pickup101), DJ, and Travis – mLTRs
Cameron Teone (The One) – Get out of your head and quit analyzing. Ok presentation.
Will (youaresoinmyway.com) – not much useful stuff here
Panel Discussion – Steve Piccus, Johnny Soporno, Zan – good discussion on what to look for in an LTR and how to really treat her
Nick Playboyskool – accomplished PUA, but very basic presentation useful only for beginners
Dr. Paul – humorous and interesting, but too academic to be practical. Part of his presentation mocked Style’s Annihilation Method. Pretty funny, but really impractical.
Brian – interesting presentation on his journey from afc to pua
Bart Baggett – spoke about handwriting analysis. This guy is the real deal and had some great gimmicks that could be used to get A2. Good stuff.
Decker – pointless presentation, no idea what he was trying to say
DJ – overcoming negative habits in PU
Lance Mason – Attraction secrets of the naturals.
Vincent DiCarlo – from theApproach – sexual power reversal, or how to get the girl to chase you. Some good stuff here.
Dolly – a girl who runs the “truth about cocks and dolls” blog. She had a good speech about how girls dream of being picked up during the daytime.
Michael de Lion – “High Level Game” – not too sure what he was trying to talk about
Asian Playboy – Overcoming anti-Asian Racism if you are an Asian PUA. Some interesting stuff and GOLD points about AMOGing big guys.
Badboy – this was a SPECTACULAR presentation. For those of you who have never heard of him, Badboy was shot in the head during the breakup of Yugoslavia. Much of the right side of his body is paralyzed. He’s got 2 bi girlfriends that are HOT and some spectacular game. His presentation actually got pretty emotional at one point when he was exhorting the audience to not waste a single day because you never know if tomorrow will be your last. This presentation was the only one the entire weekend where you could have heard a pin drop. The second part of his presentation consisted of him showing videos where he had filmed his partner approaching sets – he gave examples of good body language and bad body language. Very good and practical advice.
David Shade – Giving girls pleasure in relationships. Good stuff. David Shade looks a lot older than I ever thought he was.
Affection – overcoming obstacles. He had a great line to deal with an AMOG: “If I were a gay guy, I would fuck you ten times a day”. Good presentation, worth reviewing again.
Apollo – developing an identity
Jlaix – how to live after you’ve acquired game
Doc – the art of social networking. Great presentation, very useful.
Toecutter – Meeting girls in social circles. This was very disappointing. I had heard a lot of good things about him, but his presentation was so fundamental it was almost totally useless.
Robert Ruffo – TOTALLY useless. This was a complete waste of my time.
Zan – inner game stuff. His view of the world. Interesting food for thought.
Cortez – Badboy’s partner. Talked about body language. Dissed routines and structured approaches, just like too many other speakers have done this weekend.
Chet Rowland – ABSOLUTELY a complete waste of time. His hour-long presentation was nothing more than a marketing pitch for his product, which he never even explained what it did or why it worked.
BradP – This guy was EXCELLENT. How to have One Night Stands. Of all the presentations, this guy’s was the most practical and useful. He has a foolproof way of pulling a girl within 15 minutes of walking into a club. His presentation was the best of the weekend as far as usefulness goes. Too bad he was the last one to present.
- Second Chance (Dallas)
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